EP28: What Leaders Protect Before They Direct with David Deighton

🎙️ Inside the Conversation.
Many leaders believe communication problems begin when people stop paying attention. But what if the breakdown starts much earlier when leaders move into directing before fully understanding what they are hearing?

If you are leading a growing business, this conversation will challenge you to think differently about how communication shapes leadership, alignment, and execution.

_________

 ✨ Dig Deeper with This Resource.
→ Triptych Dialogue  - Website

 ✨ Guest Resources.
 ✉️ Email → david@TriptychDialogue.com
_________

 👤 Guest. David Deighton
David is an artist, educator, father, world traveler and entrepreneur working on transformational experiences using abstract art.  My background as an art dealer and creator of a successful art business allowed me to invest back into community and country. I use art to do this.

I am about engaging strangers in the spirit on connection and I do this in innovative ways. I'm focused on the taboo subject of politics but that word can be exchanged for a multitude of taboo subjects. I do NOT talk politics rather it's about tools to heal community, bridge  divides, transform and explore artistic expression. For the last 6 years I have been actively engaging with strangers in public spaces, asking them to talk to their political opponents, listen to them and find commonalities. So far all has gone well without confrontation. 

Follow David on social media →  YouTube 

🎧 Host. Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM
Founder, Orchestrating Your Success | Host, Manage Your Projects with Confidence | International Bestselling Author 

Helping CEOs eliminate execution gaps, protect profits, and scale with clarity, structure and confidence. Follow Cerila on social media → LinkedIn
_________

 🎙️ Scaling isn’t accidental. It’s intentional.
You don’t scale chaos. You scale
You scale what’s clear, structured, and repeatable. 

https://manageyourprojectswithconfidence.com/

Transcript

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 0:01

Welcome to Manage Your Projects with Confidence, a podcast that examines the patterns and disciplines of execution behind business growth. Hosted by Crelix County Word, this show helps women business owners understand what's actually holding their growth back and what must change or scale to become clear, structured, and repeatable. Because you don't scale chaos, you scale what's clear, structured, and repeatable. Many leaders think communication breaks down because people are not paying attention. But sometimes the real issue is when leaders stop listening and move too quickly into directing. And when that happens, interpretation starts drifting and the team begins to move in different directions. Today we're going to explore what happens inside a business when listening begins to break down at the leadership level. David, welcome to the Manage Your Project with Confidence podcast.

David Deighton 1:07

Yes, thank you. Thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 1:10

Well, thank you for being on my show today. I appreciate it. Uh our topic today is, I would say, uh foundational to everything I've been talking about for the past couple of months. For the past couple of months, I've been talking about a structure inside of a business. So we talked about uh clarity, which means uh understanding the requirements, ensuring that everybody operates from the same share interpretations, making sure the assumptions are clear. And then we also talk about the actual structure, the decision making, decision flow, the ownership, and also just a how business really operates consistently from beginning to end. But we forgot one thing, and that's why you're on today, David, because all of that stuff right, all of that stuff that I just talked about, right, is undergirded with listening skills and the spoken word. Because if you're not clear on any of that stuff, you say your your business is just not your business will be in chaos. Let's just understand that.

David Deighton 2:27

Or you're missing a big part of it. Right, right, right. There's some things missing that you can catch for listening.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 2:34

Exactly. And we're gonna really focus on the listening part, audience, because I think that's part of our problem. We don't listen enough. But before we get started into that, let me introduce to you David Denton. And David, before we get into these questions and all about listening and active listening and all that good stuff, I would love for you to introduce yourself and share a little bit about the work you are passionate about.

David Deighton 2:59

Well, uh, yeah, yeah. So I'm um I'm a retired business owner. I had an art gallery that I created uh years ago with uh with my spouse and went really, really well. But at one point I wasn't getting what I was looking for in it, which is a connection, a connection not just uh with my clients, but within myself. And and I'm a I'm a lifetime artist from before those times as a gallery owner. And so I've been devoted devoting myself for the last uh 10 years of to my artwork and in the last six years to a project that has a lot to do about listening. And I started out as a very poor listener, and now I realize that if I had some of these listening skills back in the day, I would have made a lot more money.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 3:51

You know that's right. You know that's right. And you know, I was before I I, you know, was getting ready for this podcast and this topic, you know, I started remembering things that, you know, we were taught back in school, high school, college, even in elementary school, active listening, right? And they told me.

David Deighton 4:12

You were taught that in school. I I was never taught that in school. I I mean I had the it was mostly shut up and listen.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 4:18

Yeah, we did a lot of that. We did a lot of that too. So, you know, I'm a Gen X kind of baby, and so yeah, we got a lot of that as well. Well, active active listening is so important, especially when it comes to business. I mean, any kind of business that it could be a product, it could be a service, anything, those skills are needed. So, my first question to you, so we can get into this topic of listening. What are you seeing in businesses when leaders stop listening and then start directing or taking action?

David Deighton 5:00

It's totally a frame of mind, right? When it's a lot about your your own personal ego. When uh you think uh you've got your business plan, you know what you're doing, you're you have the things that you need to do. The and y you don't really take negative feedback uh very, very well because you know you're doing things right. And and that there's a lot of that in just active listening. And I and I gotta define a little bit what active listening. As an artist, I take it to a new a new level, right? It's not just uh the auditory listening skill. It's it's taking all of your senses, right? Which sounds kind of bizarre, but we'll we'll get into that. How it can, it's it's it's it's a powerful tool. It's not just listening to another person to hear what they have to say, it's also calming your own your own brain in order to be there 100% for the other person and not think of what you want to get out of it or what you're gonna say next. And and also to include all the other senses. I mean, when have we ever like actively listened and thought about taste or smell or touch, right? Those are those are things that we kind of put aside, especially in these days and age, you know, with everything on social media, it's all visual and and and sound, right? We we kind of dismiss the other senses. And they're important in in these when we're actively listening. And it's and it's a skill that that we develop in person more than we can through our digital devices or online. I think that that's important to define that. I I bring it to a larger scale to include the other senses. Does does that make sense to you?

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 6:47

Yeah, that actually does make sense. You know, I was in Vegas, Las Vegas, Nevada, sometime last year. And it was at night. And then, you know, all your senses, you have the blinking lights, you got the bright lights, and you know, you got all these, all your senses just going everywhere, right?

David Deighton 7:08

And it smells.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 7:09

And it smells, right? And then you got, you know, I have some friends with me and everything, and you're trying to talk to them and listen to them. And you're right. It's the environment as well. Taking it back to business, and we have so many things coming at us, right? We got, you know, our phones, we got email, we got social media, we got Zoom, we got people coming into the office, we we're on chat, we got all of these things coming at us at one time. And we then we have these decisions that we have to make, very important decisions sometimes. And the leader is sitting there, and maybe I'll come into the office and say, Hey, we got this important decision, da-da-da-da. You know, that person's on doing everything, right? Hold on a second. Let me let me just answer this real quick. Or wait, wait, wait, hold on.

David Deighton 8:06

Right. Yeah, all that stuff. Right. Your phone's pinging and this is happening, and then there's the smells of the coffee and the door that slams. Yeah, all that stuff's out.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 8:16

All that stuff. David, how do we active listen in that kind of environment to make sure that we are not just halfway listening or we sometimes, you know, people come into office and we we we, uh-huh, yes. You know, but we're not really. We and then we'll say, can you repeat that again, right? How do we active listen? I I can you tell me, give me an example.

David Deighton 8:45

Well, I mean, that like in that situation, there's a lot of things going on. I mean, you you're talking about the the space and the environment that the the conversation's taking place. That's super important, is to recognize where you're at and to recognize this not, it's not gonna happen. You're not gonna be there a hundred percent for the other person. So it's to say at that, you know, these these are very common sense stuff. Is you gotta say, well, listen, you know, this is this is probably not the best place. Let's go to the other room or let's let's um deal with your texts and we're gonna have this conversation in 10 minutes time over here. You know, make an appointment for for everybody to be ready so that you can have that conversation in the right frame of mind. And uh also that the the other senses are not overloaded. So, you know, let's put our phones down and explain to me what's what the issue is and you know, do one step at a time and be there. You can't do a hundred things at the same time. We all know this, but let's remember how to do it. To do that is to create, like you said, the right space and have uh and I'd have to be in the right frame of mind in order for those for that to happen. And only at that time can you then uh listen in and try to calm your own brain, thinking, oh, I'm gonna have to say this next, this is gonna come up, where we anticipate when the conversation actually happens. You know, it's it's all it's it's all a bit of management there, right? Everybody gets their turn. You can take, you can take notes. We all know how to do this, but we're all in a hurry. So, and we're all distracted. And I think that's the main thing. We don't think of it that way. We think of it as being busy, but in a lot of sense, we're being distracted because the phone pings and this happens and it does this, and there's this sound here, and and you know, I'm hungry and I'm thirsty, and I gotta go do this and I gotta do that, and I got an appointment, all these things. We can't really be there for somebody else while we're listening if those things are happening. So we have to be conscious of them and to take the steps in order to get to that space. And when we're in that space, then we can start having a conversation. We all know this, but how do you put it into effect, right? I'm gonna go through from business back to because my business is art right now. And I do these art installations where I meet, I meet the public in uh like in national parks and free speech areas, and I meet a lot of strangers and I and I talk to them on really sensitive uh subjects like uh uh we talk about politics, the taboo subjects. And I want to be and listen into the to people. And I might hear something that I really don't want to hear, and this is where it relates to business. I'm hearing something I don't want to hear. And so at that point, I'm thinking, well, uh, this is why I'm gonna say next, because I'm having a dialogue or a conversation. And I try to stop that. And how do I stop it? Is if I hear a word that I find offensive or that I find difficult to deal with, I go to my other senses. For example, I I'm talking politics with other people, and I might hear something racist or incorrect or something like that, and it just, you know, I start boiling up inside. But if it's a word, I will then think, what does that word taste like? I know this sounds strange, but you know, I'm an abstract artist. So I'm I'm going, I'm doing some of these tools that we can all use in business. We I start thinking, what does that word taste like? Or what does that word smell like? Just for a brief second, I think about that. And for sure, it it's gonna, it's gonna create a break in my in my thinking. And and I'm gonna think, oh, that word, you know, is distasteful, you know, and and so it tastes like a shit pie, I gotta say it. You know, and I and and so and I think of that just for a brief second, and I'm like, oh, okay, that's what it is. And I'm back in listening to to the person again, right? Especially if there's if it's a difficult conversation where there's gonna be somewhat of an argument that's taking place. I'm gonna try to distance myself, my inner ego, from from being uh triggered by what's being said. And to do that, having access to the other senses or imagining what they would be, just for a brief second, is that disconnect that's needed to get back in, to listen to what's being said and to get maybe get down deeper and find out what's really going on. And I think this might be more useful with people that we might disagree with, especially if it's about uh some payment or a contract or something that's not not being honored or uh or some payment that's not being made. There's the tension is rising. That's where this is particularly useful is to bring it down a notch using this abstract way of thinking, uh, using uh the other senses to create a break. And and that's been extremely uh useful for me in these uh very high uh stake conversations I'm having in the public arena with strangers I meet, and that I could have very well used also in my everyday business had I had a bit of wear with it. But it's from experimentation as an experimental artist that I've come to found this little trick of mine that that works well for me and might work for others.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 14:09

Right. And I really like what you said. So first you talked about separating yourself from the environment, right? So maybe the off your your office is not a good place to have a conversation. Maybe it needs to be in some uh a conference room where you can leave everything behind and really focus on whatever decision or whatever problem is happening to that person or that team. Then he talked about listening and understanding what words trigger you, right? Because there's always some words that trigger somebody, right? It could be in a business, like, you know, you you don't do anything for me, or you know, you you ignore me. He said some, you know, things like that can really trigger a manager or a director, and and you're like, in your mind, you're saying, well, I I I just talked to you yesterday. What do you mean I don't listen to you? What do you mean I'm trying to avoid you, right? And so we kind of go into that defenseless mode. But what you're saying is just calm down, understand what that word or that phrase or you know, that paragraph. Right, right, right, right. And everything you're seeing too on that person's face. Right, right. Just calm down. You say it now, use those senses that you have to just calm yourself down, right? Because it's not just uh because everybody's gonna see your expression and you're like, ooh, that's one side, right? The the eye seeing and then the listening and then the tasting that you have. I said I you know, it's really hard to have hard conversations with any anyone, right? And then how do you do that? So I I I love that. Can you give uh us uh some other tips or things that you think that we should do besides you know what we just talked about a few minutes ago?

David Deighton 16:13

Sure. I just want to add to that point because you you you broke down nicely and you know put the story together there. The important aspect of having going to reach out to another sense is that it's quick. When we're having those type of exchanges and we're getting triggered and we are thinking about our response, that takes over the entire process of listening. You're no longer listening to the other, you're only just hearing them put out some words or whatever, and you're not thinking about what's actually being said because you're thinking about what has to be said in response, right? You're you're you're being defensive. And that's why going to another sense is is quick. It's a disruption in your thought process. It stops you from thinking of what you're going to say in return. The where this takes you afterwards, right, is there's if especially if there's uh some form of conflict, is to find some common ground, right? And I found out I'm taking in my uh art project, you know, the most contentious of uh of subjects. I've got politics, right?

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 17:21

Right.

David Deighton 17:21

So how do I make a bridge, right, with another person that has very different views uh from me? And that's where it applies to to business too in this conversation, is this fictional conversation we're having, is that I need a bridge. And that bridge is not gonna be in the facts or opinions that they're telling me, because the person I was speaking to has those opinions and facts. And if I am to contradict them, right, then they're gonna keep on, you know, they're gonna, we're gonna keep on going with our uh conflict. If I stay quiet, uh then I'm validating them, and that's not good either. So what I'm listening for is words of emotion. If uh, you know, for example, uh you didn't fulfill all the work that you were supposed to do, and that made me angry. All right. If I hear something like that, or my perception is that they were angry, right? I'm gonna stay with that. And and I'm gonna be able at the end of when it's my turn, if you like, to say, you know what, I disagree with a lot of the things that you said, but you did say, or I'm under the impression that you're angry, right? And and that's my chance if it's an emotion that I also feel at the same as well. And I can say, you know, I feel angry too. And that's the bridge. That's the commonality. That's where we can show, oh, well, you might be angry for other reasons, but you're angry too. That's too bad. We shouldn't be angry. I mean, usually that uh recognition of another person's emotions and finding a commonality with your own is a way to diffuse a situation. And it shows a reproach. I'm I'm French, so I'm using French words now. Approachement to come together, to find um uh a closeness. And and the higher the stakes, the more the more that's a space to get into, the emotional space. I mean, at that at that point, you don't actually hear the things that are around you, and uh you you don't the the the pinging on the phone doesn't really matter. You the distractions are gone because you're emotionally evolved and together now. And and often that brings down the situation. Now I'm saying this from hundreds of these encounters that I have with strangers that I meet talking on uh sensitive issues of of politics. And I and I and I can see how that would have been useful in disagreements in my work when I ran a business as well. May have been with my clients or suppliers or you know, show organizers or whatever it was. So that's the full story of going through that, right? From using different senses to looking within to and then finding a bridge and a commonality. And it's not just important to business, of course. It's important in our own, this is my own personal experience, I'm sharing. We all have different methods, but this is the one that works for me. And it works in my interpersonal relationships and also in these high-stake conversations or dialogues I have with strangers, which I feel this is what it is. I feel if I can have hundreds of conversations without confrontation, using these techniques with strangers I'm meeting on the subject of politics. Well, I could do anything, right? This is the worst subject of them all in a polarized time. And so that that's that's been a main one that helps me. But there's other, there's you were asking other ways as well. And and people might have, I've spoken to people about you know what they use, and they might use something that's more of a fetish of sorts, you know, they have something that they might touch or or feel in their pocket, or some clothing or something that brings them back to a sense of now and and helps to bring down the tension, especially when they're feeling feeling triggered. Some other people imagine a scene that is calming and and uh they can visualize themselves with the other person in you know, having a meal together or holding hands or something, whatever it is that helps them to bring down the tension. But I find those are visual imagery that takes quite a long time. And that's why I like to go back to senses that are very separate from their an abstract thought, like an emotion, to and bringing that to something like taste or uh or smell, which are Our underused senses these days. And uh that creates a disruption that we don't, you know, we're not gonna go off on daydreaming about what that word tastes like, and you usually get just a quick image and you can get back into the core of the conversation and be there and hear what's being said because you're gonna get a lot of information from the other person. And there's one key element of all of this is silence, right? And uh silence is the one we haven't spoken about, is is letting the other person just get it out, right? Get everything out, and you're just being quiet and silent and present for the other person. And that that's time consuming. In my case, it takes two minutes and 37 seconds of listening to somebody else until they they get they get it out. That's the average until they get what they need to get out. Until and then afterwards we can start having a dialogue. They often people need to vent first, and somebody's gonna have to take the step to uh the listen in to be there for for that for that time. Because you're usually not gonna get it from the other side, so somebody's gotta do it.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 23:10

Right.

David Deighton 23:11

So that's gotta be the person that's conscious of the action.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 23:14

Well, David, you said a lot. So let me just break this down what you just said. You talked about your other senses is a disruption of thought. And I wrote that down. I said, ooh, that's good. Because sometimes we start in a way, and then it's like, wait a minute, if I if I'm using my other my senses, it's a disruption in the pattern. Maybe I should pull back, right? On what I'm getting ready to say, or when I'm listening, and then when I'm getting ready to respond. So that's one thing. The second thing you said is triggers. Very interesting. Everybody has a trigger. Everybody got a word, or it don't have to be words, it could be just your presence is a trigger for somebody, right?

David Deighton 24:08

Yeah, they looked at me wrong.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 24:10

Right, right. And then you the third thing you said is silence. And you're right about sometimes it's just having the person there let them talk until their heart is done. And then they say, you know, they say, Well, that's all. That's all I wanted to do. And you don't even have to solve the problem.

David Deighton 24:32

They did it by themselves.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 24:34

They did it by themselves. So, David, as a business, and you know, we're both business owners. What's the impact of not doing this, especially when you have a business that's growing? So, you know, sometimes we we're growing, we're growing to the next level. Let's say we're making $100,000 right now as a business. We get ready to make five million dollars. So all of that is chaos already. You're trying to put sisters together, you're trying to get structure, you're trying to get clear on what things are all about, what your business is all about, because now you're growing. That's already chaos already. But now we're bringing in the listening, and you're trying to make decisions, and sometimes we are just like pushing people aside. I don't want to hear it anymore. I just give me a break. What's the impact?

David Deighton 25:34

Um, well, the stakes are high there. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. It was impact. So what what's the impact just besides a business not, you know, because it could cause chaos, right? So it's gonna be on top of chaos. But what does it ha happen to the individual, the the CEO, the the vice president, all these leaders in your business that are making decisions? Yeah, I'm sure there's different answers to that.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 26:03

Yeah, give me an example uh, you know, that you might experience or that you had experienced.

David Deighton 26:08

As I'm seeing that, now I'm a small business, right? We had is my wife and I, five employees, but everybody was working independently. And we didn't really cross over each other, uh each other's domains. However, there's a question of time. And and if I'm, you know, if there's a project that needed to be fulfilled and I'm set for for the time is limited, there's some subjects that I would not be ready to to address at that particular time. And I think you'd agree, and your listeners would as well, is like there's some subjects that need to wait till later, but they might be important for that person that wants to explain their problems to you. And that's the question to ask. And this wait for later. I'd be glad to hear about it. Let's make an appointment. Or if it but I'd be glad to talk about it now, if it needs to be, just to hear it. And you know, set a time limit to it as well. You got five minutes? You can you give five minutes? You know, give five minutes and just listen and uh take it all in because it's all gonna be pretty good. You're gonna learn how either the employee the employee is thinking, or how that manager what's their thoughts, and you're just gonna be present during those five minutes and take notes. I'm sure we have different ways. How would you deal with it?

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 27:34

For me, it depends on how serious the decision. I need to give an answer to a decision. Sometimes you got to step back and say, like you said, I can't answer this right now. Thank you for the question. Let me do some research on it. Let me look at whatever you provided me, and let me try to get that answer to, you know, that decision or answer to you by tomorrow. And then there's other times where I always say, well, okay, let's talk about it right now. Yeah, I can't wait till tomorrow. I try to see all points of views to the situation and then ask the other person, well, what would you do? You know, what's your take on it? Because sometimes as leaders, we're so far away from the situation, we're coming in. But that person may be already in that situation. And it's always good to ask. So what would you do? You're closer to the situation. What's your solution? What do you think I should do? Okay. That sounds like read something reasonable. Let's do it. So that way you give the power back to the person who's really asking, you know, the question. And sometimes just like, go ahead. You don't I don't you already gave me the answer. But if I don't take time to listen, understand the situation, get feedback, and yeah, you're gonna miss out. You're gonna miss out on those gems. And then on their thoughts. And there might be some uh delegation of management that could be done right there and there. They might have some idea and thought it through as they were uh uh, you know, uh mulling through ideas uh on their spare time of how things should be done. And uh yeah, that may be a perfect opportunity. I think it's it's it's it's in listening that that you find uh opportunities either to mend situations or to move ahead with new uh with new business uh ventures or new business ideas. I love it. Yeah, of course that needs to be in there.

David Deighton 29:35

Absolutely. Just put that in the book.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 29:38

Absolutely. Because sometimes you don't even have to make the decision. What's super important is how do we apply this? You know, we're if you're coming from nothing, right? You need to practice. I I how do you practice it with small steps? I do this art project, right, where I talk to strangers, but that's not my ultimate goal. My ultimate goal is so that other people and myself, we can talk to the people we no longer speak to, friends, family, because of on sensitive subjects. It's easier to do that with a stranger. There's less skin in the game than it is with somebody that you're emotionally involved with, in the sense of a family member friendship and all this, or business relationship. So, how do you apply these things? And I I think you can apply them in small moments during our day when it's even from uh ordering coffee to encounters uh or listening to that police officer when they're writing you up a ticket. You know, maybe that silence is a good time right then, rather than before you try to explain yourself. Right, right. And I I I love the fact that you gave us something to apply, because that was going to be my next question is how do we what's the next step? How do we do this? And I like what you said, small steps, right?

David Deighton 31:01

Small steps, small, and and where you're not in, you know, it's uh it's you don't feel threatened by by the outcome. And the best way to not have an outcome is often in in silence, unless it's to your detriment, unless there's part of you that's going to be harmed from not speaking up or your business. There's there's times for interruption. And but we you know, it's always good to have a mirror in a sense, so that this all makes so much sense, right? That we should put ourselves in other people's shoes for a second and imagine what that would be like, how we would like to be uh spoken to, right? And to move on to spoken to is to speak with, right? That togetherness. So you can move from that to to the with. That's an important step. But to do that, we need practice. So there, there are little steps, and it has a lot to do. I gotta say, from my own personal experience, it's one of it's been humbling, it's one of humility, because you you gotta put yourself on, kind of take yourself down a few notches when you're listening to somebody so you can be there for the other. Because otherwise you get triggered. And that's back to the word triggered. And triggered is when you know you feel you feel upset by what somebody said or it's against uh your your beliefs, and you feel the urge to uh counter what what has been said. And and often that's not where the solution lies. I I think you said it very well in the in the situation of listening into someone because they're gonna come up either with their own solution or with a solution that you can use. And and those are steps that that we can take, but it's not in our culture, right? It's not in the in it's not in our business culture to to really do those things, and especially to do it quickly and and in a fast manner that's true to your heart and true to how you feel. So yeah, it's it's maybe part of our language, but we need to feel it from the heart for it to really have true meaning. And and and that's that's the hard part, and that takes practice. And I'm not saying I can do it, I'm saying I'm working on it.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 33:15

Right, right.

David Deighton 33:16

You can't do anything overnight. You know, things like this takes time because we're we all have different personalities. We all come from different environments, you know, different work environments. You know, some of us are business owners, so it takes time to do anything to get it to where you need it to be. Let me ask you one more scenario before we move on. What if you're already in chaos right now? Like I said, let's go back to my example. You're you're a hundred thousand dollar business, you're moving to a five million dollar business, you got this huge contract that's chaos right there. How do you move from out of chaos into what we were talking about, the listening? Because what I usually see is leaders half listening and then they just start directing and it just causes them to go and left field, and then the business is out on the limb and they don't know how to get it back. So if you're already in chaos, how do I get myself out of chaos? Is there a thought? Is there is there a question I should be asking myself? Do you have any any examples for us? Yeah, so so when that's happening, I'm thinking, I don't have time for this. I already, you know, I already have a plan. We got to move on, we got to go do this. This needs to be implemented. I'm wasting five minutes of my time listening to this. This is, you know, these are just this is all peanuts compared to the real big picture here. So uh, you know, I'm I'm I'm anxious, I'm I'm angry. I have to be conscious of the things that I'm actually feeling at that time uh in order to bring down the tension within myself in order to get to that five million dollar price, right? And you know, I'm I'm gonna go all spiritual on you here because in those moments, right? Uh we all have maybe different methods, but my method is to remember a few simple things that everything is impermanent, nothing's gonna last forever. This moment's gonna pass. I'm gonna suffer if uh because I don't want to miss the opportunity of getting the $5 million, and I don't want to, I don't want to miss this. And I, you know, I have a goal and I want to reach the goal, I'm attached to it. I'm so attached to it that I'm gonna suffer on the way to get there. And then I'm gonna remind myself that in a big scheme of things, it doesn't really matter. So just go with it, go with the flow and enjoy the game all the way to maybe the five mil, maybe not, you know? But if you take it down, you know, some people say, well, you need the pressure in order to attain your goals. And with that, that's what gets me there. But, you know, okay, it's there's that pressure today, and there might be more pressure tomorrow. I would try to at that moment take uh consciousness of the fact that it in the big scheme of things, well, it's okay. I might get to the five million or not, but it's uh how I'm gonna get there. And if I have more of a presence of mind and a calm within me while I go there, I think that'll benefit everybody in the process. And I might live a little bit longer, too.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 36:28

Right. Okay. You know, stress would you know, stress can kill a person.

David Deighton 36:33

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. And if everybody could see me, they can see how little hair I got on my head.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 36:39

That's the first thing to go, right? Is the hair.

David Deighton 36:42

That's not a guy I would talk about.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 36:45

I love it. Thank you for that insight, David, because you know, sometimes we don't know how to fix it. So we just stay there until it all falls apart. And then we say, okay, well, I guess I need to go get help. And he said, that's that's normal for us, right? We'll fix it, we'll fix it, we fix it until we can't fix it anymore. So thank you for that insight. David, talk about your business a little bit. Talk about a little bit more. I I know you talked a little bit about what you're passionate about in the beginning, but talk a little bit about your business. Let us, our audience, know what you do and how you do it and all that good stuff.

David Deighton 37:27

Well, to give you a full rundown on that, we're gonna have to have many other sessions.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 37:33

Give me the cliff built version.

David Deighton 37:38

Well, I've moved from having an art gallery, right, into being an a full-time artist. And a lot of artists don't see themselves as a business, but I I certainly do. I see there's a lot of business elements like the public, the product, the sale, the plan, all those things are are there. But there's one thing between the two that is identical is a sense of pleasure, of contentment with the activity where it does not feel like work. It's, you know, I feel good every moment I'm awake thinking about things and moving along with the projects. And I don't feel in any way it's it's a chore. The ones that are chores are the areas where that should be delegated when it's possible. Uh, some people are very good at paperwork. That's not my deal. Uh and so you know that that would be all the bookkeeping and accounting and taxes. That's for other people to deal with. And to to avoid the areas of of not of discomfort, but of areas where you don't excel, like that are not part of your your flow. For me, I'm for flow for me is like artistic creation, right? So I want to focus on those things. And and that's that's my business today. In a sense, it's not very different than when I from the art gallery, you know, selling artwork to to clients. Today, it's I don't have clients per se. I engage with the public. The product is different pieces of artwork that are put in public spaces where people don't expect to see them. But there's there's a it's just a continuation. It's just a continuation. And I like it that way.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 39:22

Well, David, I will love to see this artwork that you are helping other people and bring it to life. You know, it's it's a different way of business. So we I usually talk about, you know, business, business, you know, like the Apples, uh, you know, the Microsoft. We talk about that type of businesses. This you're the first business guy I brought on that we talked about artistry. Very interesting. But I I think everybody needs to understand that business doesn't have to be a product and a service. It could be the artistic side as well, which we actually don't talk about because they need structure as well. They need clarity as well, just like everybody else. And they need to have, you know, structure in place and everything. So thank you. Uh, I appreciate that. And bring in your expertise in your industry. Got to learn a little bit more about artistry. My niece actually is in that realm, and that uh um realm. She paints and she does freehand and all that other good stuff. And I was always like, I'm more the other side of the brain. Right? You know, the artistry part of the side of the brain, that's not me. But what, you know, whatever she does, she brings to life. She is like, wow, how amazing is it. But David, for our listeners out there, how do they connect with you? We're gonna have all your information on our show notes and we'll have your website out there, but let us our listeners know how they can get in contact with you.

David Deighton 40:51

The best thing is to go to my website and they'll have different links to different platforms and they can see what I what I'm doing and a lot of different art projects uh around all the themes of what we were talking about today. And it's gonna be a strange name. So get ready, everybody, write it down. It's triptych dialogue. And and that's written T-R-I-T-Y-C-H, then dialogue, D-I-A-L-O-G-U-E.com. And a triptych dialogue, that'll that'll have tons of stuff on there and uh tons of abstract stuff. And uh, you can send me your comments and I'll be glad to have a conversation with you.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 41:32

Well, David, thank you again for this conversation. Thank you for being on the Manage Her Project with Confidence podcast.

David Deighton 41:40

Thank you. It's a pleasure.

Cerila Gailliard, PMP, CSM 41:42

Take a moment to think on this question. Why might the market be confused about what I offer or how my business operates. If this episode helped you see something more clearly about how your business is running, that's the work. Growth doesn't stall because you're not capable, it stalls when execution isn't clear or repeatable enough to support the next level. If you want more conversations like this, subscribe to Manage Your Projects with Confidence. And share this episode with another woman business owner who's ready to stop guessing and start understanding what needs to change. And remember, scaling isn't accidental, it's intentional. You don't scale chaos, you scale what's clear, structured, and repeatable.